This is an organisation that promote good communication, so that consumers may better understand information given to them from service providers. This range covers everything from council information, corporate bodies and even train time tables.

Anyway, today I stumbled across their website and found their guide for good web design - http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/websitesguide.pdf

Don't laugh too hard, it was written at least 7 years ago and copyrighted in (gulp) 2001 [7 years since 2001? where has the time gone].

The guide discusses the advantages of fixed width at 800px, font face and frames.

Just took a quick look, and even though it's outdated a lot of the info is very valid today

clarity is probably one of the most, if not the most important aspect of a website IMO

i've looked at too many review requests for websites that had no direction and frankly made no sense

Northie wrote:

Don't laugh too hard

Had I read that pdf a month ago, I would have laughed at "it is best to stick to familiar, common fonts." - as I thought this was common knowledge but the other day I came across a site using an illegible font that I happened to have installed.  I took a screenshot (cropped just a portion so as not to embarass the owner if he ever stumbles upon this thread)...

- naturally anyone who doesn't have that font installed will see Times New Roman, which ordinarily is a fugly font but it sure beats whatever he's using now!

That guides not to bad... a lot of it is common sense described in a way that average joe can understand. I am tempted to download and forward this to future clients, it would be nice to have some of them on my side for a change

What do you all think of the idea of having your address and phone number on the web site?


Janet

JanetMc wrote:

What do you all think of the idea of having your address and phone number on the web site?

Why? On this site or your own site?


Another question... why is this relevant to "The Plain English Campaign"?

JanetMc wrote:

What do you all think of the idea of having your address and phone number on the web site?

Standard practice

Most people want to be contacted by visitors on their websites because they are trying to sell something

RAESteyn wrote:

Another question... why is this relevant to "The Plain English Campaign"?

echo

Hey Janet!

I see you've asked a good question.

Maybe it doesn't fit too well with the current conversation. How about you create a new thread? Your question would fit in "Everything Else."

I think the less than ideal placement of your question is simply a reflection of your newness to the web and forums. This is neither a crime nor a sin. So let's see a new post, huh?

I'll be away for a couple of days so I hope I don't miss it. I can see that Ryan is busting to get into the conversion. It's the sort of thing that matte and a couple of others would have an opinion on.

Best wishes.

Sorry Guys,

Thankyou Laurie for explaining things.

I downloaded the 7 year old tips on building a website,so i thought i was posting in the right place.

I was also cooking dinner at the same time,drove my son to work and spoke with my Husband on the phone,So no doubt the ones moaning are all males

Janet, standing up for herself

lol... does that mean we wont be getting a separate thread?

I like the last page

The final rule - professional and freelance
designers
If you do hire outside help for your site, remember to work to one golden rule.
The designer is there to produce what you have asked for, not to use your site to show off
what they can do!

OK, let the debate begin - The designer is there to produce what you have asked for, not to use your site to show off

Creative licence.

I think it is the responsibility of the designer to demonstrate what can be done. the client/commissioner has final say, but may have been initially unaware of what is possible.

I get it quite a bit when i'm freelancing. One guy I do some work for is quite technically minded, so has a go at telling me how i should do my work rather than what the final objectives are. In most cases I end up convincing my client that my way is better - and the client gets a better product for it. [I do programming/development work, rather than design]

NO.

Simply because 10 out of 10 times (at least in all the sites I have and am currently building) what the client "wants" is not what they want. I have worked my a#@ off building whatever random thing they want - despite my better judgment and shot down suggestions - only to find the client doesnt like it at all.

Reality being that most of the time they have no clue what they want other than "the best website ever", I have actually started sending them to free css / template sites to go through designs and pick one they want. The one they choose gets fixed, modded and turned into their site. I am actually getting to the point where I cant wait till I am good enough with coding to make a living doing that as opposed to websites.

The designer is there to produce what you have asked for, not to use your site to show off
perhaps if by "site" one is referring to "front lawn" or "wall paint"

matte wrote:

OK, let the debate begin - The designer is there to produce what you have asked for, not to use your site to show off

I'm not sure I understand the statement. Of course, I haven't hired out yet and I haven't done freelance work before (obviously).

I'm more of a "Hit it with a rock" kind of guy.

Anyways, what does the statement mean?

to me it means using flash when it is not needed or other 'functionality' that is cool to implement but adds nothing to the user experience.

To me it refers to layout, navigation, color, images and overall usability of the site; showing off does mean different things to different people though

I always opt away from flash, but there does come the odd moment when it cant be helped Pretty banners for example... without 3 pages of javascript

none of that is showing off tho Ryan

think of a small Toyota car and putting a V6 motor into it, wide rubber and a sound system that can be heard in the next country....when all the poor old dear wanted was for a reliable car to go shopping in that was fuel efficient.

I think there are many 'developers' out there who like to put a whole lot of 'stuff' onto sites that goes way beyond the needs of the site....and as a  result reduces the functionality and user ease.

Fair enough, for me though, it is a rare occasion that a client wants plain and simple, I have to talk them out of the glits and glamor that makes some site unbearable or epileptic fit inducing. It is however only once they have seen what they wanted that they realise what a bad idea it was...

It is the clients duty to supply the designer with a concept, their business goals and image, a corporate identity to maintain and basic layout information. Other than that, I believe it is up to the designer/developer to put it all together and create a great website that echoes the clients needs.

Using your example (its second hand I know). That old lady cant go up to toyota and tell them where she would like the doors placed and where the engine should go.

Speaking from experience here - as a developer; and second hand from a designer:

Given a brief from a client I will map out the required logic, database designs etc. At this point I am able to see potential pitfalls, areas that will cause problems and how to 'streamline' integrating all the parts together. It is at this stage that I will go back to the client and say "you'd be better off doing it this way...."

I feel it's my job to say this, and as the UK follows the US attitude to "where there's blame there's a claim", I'm pretty sure a client would attempt to sue may @$$ off for lack of due diligence if I didn't make such suggestions.

On the rare occasions my client has asked me to remain with the original brief, despite my better judgement; the client has not been happy with it and has come back to me and I am told to "sort it out how you [me] see fit".

The same is true of the designers I work closely with.

Let's go back to the car example that matte made: You wouldn't sell the poor old dear a solar powered mobility scooter, either (four wheels, solar-electric motor and a basket for the shopping bag!)

The point is, we as designers and developers have industry knowledge and we are paid for this knowledge and consultancy as well as being commissioned to do the work.

99% of the time we do know best (one of the reasons we're hired in the first place) and if we don't say so then our clients get a poor product, our reputation goes downhill and our business dries up.

So while I don't agree with using a clients site to "show off" what I can do, I'd like the client to be able to "show off" his/her web site/web app and give me the relevant credit beyond the paycheck (eg new business leads, recommendations, etc)

LOL great debate

Yes often the person does not know the potential etc.

Good points made by all thus far.