I ran across a post in search/engines/Google about having 2 website hostings for one web site and I came across a comment made by Laurie about redirects.

Every time Google indexes my web site I use to pop up on the front page, get a lot of hits then within 5 days I'm back on page 2 or 3.  In my niche it's critical that I be somewhere near the front page or top of page two.

Once I went to one of my other sites and all the pages redirected to another site I never heard of.  That part has stopped because I changed hosts right away.

Here is my question;

Are these other sites SEOing me right out of my position on the first page and how do they do it and what/are redirects?  Is it something they are doing?

Here is my site www.elledesignsDOTcom

My site has been up since 2001 and need to understand why this is happening every month.

Thanks so much for any help you can give me.

Lorri Collins

G'day Lorri. Welcome to SR forum!

I've had a very basic look at your link profile and found some things that look to be be not helpful and possibly hurtful in some cases. Much more research needed.

Here's one that is possibly an isolated case where the host made a mistake: http://portraitsdrawnbygene.tripod.com/ … esigns.com Two site's links married into one. Page not found.

I see you've used a lot of link directories. The same links come up on many of them. I reckon Google would flag this as using link farms and downgrade the value of the links. Get some reliable advice on this one. My own thinking is that although you've worked hard at your link profile, a lot of what you've done is ill advised.

I see that many of the sites with which you've done link exchanges are made to the identical template. This is of no consequence of its self, but I wonder how it came about. Are they all your sites, with the same set of exchanged links. Are you part of an industry group or a franchise? Have you used an on line site builder and used their link building strategy and exchanged links with their customers?

I ask these questions in an attempt to find out how the linking profile came about. I would need to spend hours to find stuff that you can tell us in minutes. You'll need to give more info.

What are the keywords for which your SERPs fluctuate? What is your current ranking for those keywords and what is the competition? Are the keywords searched on?

A reasonable amount of fluctuation is to be expected due to different data centres.

Look forward to your response.

Best wishes,
Laurie.

Thanks Laurie for taking a look at my site.

I ask these questions in an attempt to find out how the linking profile came about. I would need to spend hours to find stuff that you can tell us in minutes. You'll need to give more info.

I try my best to stay away from link farms but sometimes people approach you with what looks like a viable site and then a few months later, gasp!, it has turned into something right out of Aliens.  When I find these I drop them fast but I guess not fast enough.

I have some very good links to fellow artists whom I trust.  Some of the sites I link to are my sites hosted on different servers.  So it that's hurting my rankings then it's my own fault.  I thought by linking to sites with some page rank would help me out and I must admit some of these sites have not been as popular as they could be.  If you see any glaring mistakes that I'm unaware of please let me know so that I do not make the mistake again.

What are the keywords for which your SERPs fluctuate? What is your current ranking for those keywords and what is the competition? Are the keywords searched on?

The big keyword everyone tries to get high ranking is this business is "pet portraits".    I'm on the second page for this keyword at the present.  When Google did it's dance I was on the bottom of page 3 but like I said I slowly crawl back up but by that time Google does the dance again, I'm at the bottom. 

The different between first page and second page is making a living and not making a living.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Lorri

Aloha lplatzeck, I took a quick look at your situation prior to reading your response to Lauri and there we a few things that jumped out at me. In particular there were a few sites that looked just like this one, they even have the same flaws. Go figure

(1) I would start by removing the following from all of your pages

<META NAME="revisit-after" CONTENT="2 days"> The object is to get the search engine to visit as much as you can

<META NAME="Date" CONTENT="5/11/2007"> Here you are telling the search engine that your content is expired

(2) I would prune all non essential outbound links and condense your outbound links to just 1 page. You should try to make it a usable resource page, quit linking to your other sites and buddies. Consider linking to real resources like the tools of your trade. FYI you currently have some broken outbound links.

(3) Get some additional inbound links from relevant sites and verticals. While links are getting devalued there is still some benefit, especially if you use relevant, yet varied anchor text. Think KW and phrase modifiers. Also try to view links as tools for discovery and not so much ranking.

(4) The site also appears to be quite lean on content, consider writing some articles and hanging them under the appropriate category. Add some content on the text void pages, like the one with a single dog picture on it

(5) Come up with a content creation plan, i.e. add 1 new page a week. Google likes fresh content.

(6) Get rid of the big space on the bottom of the pages, not a ranking factor, just looks shitty

(7) Make the site navigation look the same on all pages, not a ranking factor, just looks shitty

Keep in mind that its not your site against the other web sites, its your site against an algorithm.

The Google dance is about minor changes to the algorithm. That's not what's effecting your ranking, so forget that line.

I checked you ranking for pet portraits and you were #42 with about 800,000 results. Half an hour later you were #39 for about 600,000 results. That's normal.

If a different data centre provides the results, with a different number of results indexed for you keyword, then your position above #1 may well alter, depending whether there are extra results between you and #1. Follow that?

I suggest that you follow up on WS advice. Add 100 to 200 words to one of the content deficient pages. Do this two or three times a week. Googlebot will get into the habit of regularly visiting to index your new content.

Go to your SR profile page and give yourself a website link to your home page and a signature link to an important internal page. This won't help with ranking but may get Google to visit. Get your first page update done first. Make the sig link the updated page.

See if you can find FriendFeed and join an appropriate room. Give yourself a backlink.

These are simply to get Google to recognize your site as worth visiting because of fresh content.

waveshoppe wrote:

Aloha lplatzeck, I took a quick look at your situation prior to reading your response to Lauri and there we a few things that jumped out at me. In particular there were a few sites that looked just like this one, they even have the same flaws. Go figure

(1) I would start by removing the following from all of your pages

<META NAME="revisit-after" CONTENT="2 days"> The object is to get the search engine to visit as much as you can.

OK, I will do that!

<META NAME="Date" CONTENT="5/11/2007"> Here you are telling the search engine that your content is expired
Yikes!  Stupid stupid stupid. I will fix

(2) I would prune all non essential outbound links and condense your outbound links to just 1 page. You should try to make it a usable resource page, quit linking to your other sites and buddies. Consider linking to real resources like the tools of your trade. FYI you currently have some broken outbound links.
I'll do that too

(3) Get some additional inbound links from relevant sites and verticals. While links are getting devalued there is still some benefit, especially if you use relevant, yet varied anchor text. Think KW and phrase modifiers. Also try to view links as tools for discovery and not so much ranking.
Gotcha!

(4) The site also appears to be quite lean on content, consider writing some articles and hanging them under the appropriate category. Add some content on the text void pages, like the one with a single dog picture on it
I've been meaning to do that but my brain draws a blank but will give it a go!

(5) Come up with a content creation plan, i.e. add 1 new page a week. Google likes fresh content.
I will certainly try this out.  I have been totally lax at this.

(6) Get rid of the big space on the bottom of the pages, not a ranking factor, just looks shitty
OK, Clean up blank space

(7) Make the site navigation look the same on all pages, not a ranking factor, just looks shitty
OK to that.  Makes sense.  Never sure whether text links are better than image links.

Keep in mind that its not your site against the other web sites, its your site against an algorithm.

Thank you for all your great suggestions.  What is the correct amount of time to tell Google to revisit?  2 weeks?

Many thanks,

Lorri

laurie_m wrote:

The Google dance is about minor changes to the algorithm. That's not what's effecting your ranking, so forget that line.

I checked you ranking for pet portraits and you were #42 with about 800,000 results. Half an hour later you were #39 for about 600,000 results. That's normal.

If a different data centre provides the results, with a different number of results indexed for you keyword, then your position above #1 may well alter, depending whether there are extra results between you and #1. Follow that?
No, could you try to explain that to me again?

I suggest that you follow up on WS advice. Add 100 to 200 words to one of the content deficient pages. Do this two or three times a week. Googlebot will get into the habit of regularly visiting to index your new content.
OK

Go to your SR profile page and give yourself a website link to your home page and a signature link to an important internal page. This won't help with ranking but may get Google to visit. Get your first page update done first. Make the sig link the updated page.
Yes, to that!

See if you can find FriendFeed and join an appropriate room. Give yourself a backlink.
Cool.  I'll find it

These are simply to get Google to recognize your site as worth visiting because of fresh content.

Makes sense to me

Once again, many thanks for taking the time to look at all these variables.

Lorri

If a different data centre provides the results, with a different number of results indexed for you keyword, then your position above #1 may well alter, depending whether there are extra results between you and #1. Follow that?
No, could you try to explain that to me again?

Google has a heap of data centres around the world, any of which can provide your search results at any time. They don't all have exactly the same data. Depends which one you draw.

What is the correct amount of time to tell Google to revisit?  2 weeks?

WS is suggesting you remove these two lines. They  do no good. You don't need them.

Regards,
Laurie.

laurie_m wrote:

If a different data centre provides the results, with a different number of results indexed for you keyword, then your position above #1 may well alter, depending whether there are extra results between you and #1. Follow that?
No, could you try to explain that to me again?

Google has a heap of data centres around the world, any of which can provide your search results at any time. They don't all have exactly the same data. Depends which one you draw.

What is the correct amount of time to tell Google to revisit?  2 weeks?

WS is suggesting you remove these two lines. They  do no good. You don't need them.

Regards,
Laurie.

Thanks!  I'm heading to my web site now to fix everything you've suggested.  I can't wait to see if it helps.

Thanks again!

Lorri

Thanks!  I'm heading to my web site now to fix everything you've suggested.  I can't wait to see if it helps.

Woah lplatzeck, those recommendations were very basic things that you could impliment to get you on the right path. But don’t think that you will make the changes and then wake up in the morning to a shiny new world, its not like that.

Its an ongoing process, as well as a mix of experimentation and theory.

waveshoppe wrote:

Thanks!  I'm heading to my web site now to fix everything you've suggested.  I can't wait to see if it helps.

Woah lplatzeck, those recommendations were very basic things that you could impliment to get you on the right path. But don’t think that you will make the changes and then wake up in the morning to a shiny new world, its not like that.

Its an ongoing process, as well as a mix of experimentation and theory.

I know!  It takes forever to get results plus I have to add all that new text to all those empty pages.

I can hardly wait means I'll see what happens in 21 days.  (smile)

It's so nice to get some good sound basic tips to help my site.

L.

I can hardly wait means I'll see what happens in 21 days.  (smile)

Nah! You can do better than that Lorri.

Once Googlebot gets to know that you regularly updated pages, he'll be hounding you to view what new stuff you have.

He may need to find new stuff on several visits before he decides it's worth visiting regularly.

I recently made a new site with about 160 pages. The site is pinged, which your site won't be. I uploaded the pages, in blocks of five, three times a day. Nearly all the new pages got indexed between a minute and a couple of hours. They were cached in a day or two. I don't see why your work won't show up in a matter of a couple of days, once you get the pace up.

The ongoing bit is that you have a lot more to do than what you currently see. That's just the start; the easy bit.

Do you understand how to look at your source code, online and look at the cached version of the site?

Having had a look at some parts of your site, I can tell you that it's quite well put together; some pages better than others. I've also had a look at some of your competition.

There's on page optimization and off page optimization.

Some of your competition sites are not all that well optimized, on page. Not much better than yours. Shouldn't be all that hard to get in front of them. I reckon we can beat #9 for on page optimization, easy enough.

Note that the first five results for me are .au sites, me being in Australia. The next couple are .com sites, but also Australian sites. These may not show up in the US results, most of the time.

Regards,
Laurie.

Nah! You can do better than that Lorri.

Once Googlebot gets to know that you regularly updated pages, he'll be hounding you to view what new stuff you have.

He may need to find new stuff on several visits before he decides it's worth visiting regularly.

Ah Ha!  OK, new content needs to be added consistantly

I recently made a new site with about 160 pages. The site is pinged, which your site won't be.

Do you mean this type of ping?  http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/ping

I uploaded the pages, in blocks of five, three times a day. Nearly all the new pages got indexed between a minute and a couple of hours. They were cached in a day or two. I don't see why your work won't show up in a matter of a couple of days, once you get the pace up.

Why did you upload in blocks?  Is that a better way than uploading the site all at once?

The ongoing bit is that you have a lot more to do than what you currently see. That's just the start; the easy bit.

Do you understand how to look at your source code, online and look at the cached version of the site?

Yes, I look at source code a lot.  I also can find the cached version.  What do I need to be looking for?

Having had a look at some parts of your site, I can tell you that it's quite well put together; some pages better than others. I've also had a look at some of your competition.

There's on page optimization and off page optimization.

What is the difference between on page and off page?

Some of your competition sites are not all that well optimized, on page. Not much better than yours. Shouldn't be all that hard to get in front of them. I reckon we can beat #9 for on page optimization, easy enough.

Note that the first five results for me are .au sites, me being in Australia. The next couple are .com sites, but also Australian sites. These may not show up in the US results, most of the time.

Here are my competition.  I am # 13 on the second page
    1.    www.petsinpastedotcom
    2.    www.ergstudiosdotcom/
    3.    www.pet-portraitsdotnet/
    4.    www.pet-portraitartistdotcom/
    5.    www.pet-artdotnet/
    6.    www.artpawdotcom
    7.    www.petportraitsdotorg
    8.    www.portraitsofanimalsdotcom
    9.    www.noahsartdotcom
    10.    www.petportraitsforyoudotcom
    11.    www.bettysportraitsdotcom
    12.    www.bealsstudiosdotcom
    13.    www.elledesigns.com



thank you!

Lorri

Not such a good idea to give your competition a backlink.

Suggest you hit the Edit button on the post and DOTcom/DOTnet/DOTorg the links.

Why did you upload in blocks?  Is that a better way than uploading the site all at once?

Ah Ha!  OK, new content needs to be added consistantly

What do I need to be looking for?

Among the things to look for is the cache date.

Regards,
Laurie.

My cache date is September 14th.


Among the things to look for is the cache date.

Regards,
Laurie

My cache date is September 14th.

OK. Is that all the pages or just the home page? It's unusual for Googlebot to go through the whole site in one go.

When you've got most of your site cashed within a few days, you'll know Googlebot is seeing your site as worth regular visits. When this is happening, you can make changes and see the results in a few days or a week; as soon as the updated page has been cached, maybe sooner. So keep a record of your updates and add to it the cache dates. Ooh, it's fun!

So how are you going with updating your content, Lorri? Done a page yet? When you're ready, I'll suggest a task on the home page title. Only a small job but very important!

Regards,
Laurie.

Hey Lorri! Do you know how to check the indexing of your whole site?

site:www.elledesigns.com/

Put that in the search box.

Regards,
Laurie.

I looked at all the pages on my site and many (most I think) have not been indexed since August!  Eeek!

Will adding fresh content to these pages cause them to be indexed more frequently? 

I've got major work being done on my home.  Some of the rooms have been sealed off.  I can't even get to my big computer and I need that program to update my pages. 

Tomorrow I will start writing the copy for some of my pages on my laptop. 

I've been using IBP for SEO.  What do you think of them?

I know the title is important so I'm looking forward to improving it.

I'll make a spread sheet for my cache dates and keep checking it.

Thanks!

L.

laurie_m wrote:

My cache date is September 14th.

OK. Is that all the pages or just the home page? It's unusual for Googlebot to go through the whole site in one go.

When you've got most of your site cashed within a few days, you'll know Googlebot is seeing your site as worth regular visits. When this is happening, you can make changes and see the results in a few days or a week; as soon as the updated page has been cached, maybe sooner. So keep a record of your updates and add to it the cache dates. Ooh, it's fun!

So how are you going with updating your content, Lorri? Done a page yet? When you're ready, I'll suggest a task on the home page title. Only a small job but very important!

Regards,
Laurie.

Hi Lorri.

I've spent a couple of hours looking around your site and into it's guts.

Your cache rate is OK and the site is well indexed.

Updated and new content may get you indexed more frequently, thus bringing about the benefits or losses of your changes more quickly. It may also help with your ranking.

Some of your titles are fine while others need tightening up. The title (meta title) should be focused tightly on your keyword/phrase for the page. Some of your titles, in particular the home page which is the most important page on the site, are sentences, and would be better suited as the description.

Put a link to your html sitemap, on the home page and preferably on every page. Use html for this, not the javascript links.

The flowers link on the sitemap needs fixing. Remove the first "/html".

Take note of WS suggestions, about your outgoing links and about your navigation.

At the very least, remove all the dead links, all those to sites that are not relevant and all those that lead to your competition.

Best wishes with it,
Laurie.

I think we’re kind of going mad here… there are odds and ends of advice with no real co-ordination. Lorri, it really hit home when you said;

What is the difference between on page and off page?

This says to me that you should get a grounding in the basics of SEO if you’re going to be in charge of that aspect of the site promotion/marketing.

Now, right away…. Merely adding new text to old pages is not really a plan. With any SEO plan the initial (and likely most important) phase is keyword research and targeting. Once we have done that we can look at existing content to see which pages we will be targeting for each phrase or set of related phrasings (theme).

Often time, new content will be the call of the day over existing pages… others we may have existing content or are targeting the home page. Either way, merely adding some content here and there with no direct plan (to rank a page and eventually move them from that page to a conversion).

Oh yea, you also mentioned;

I've been using IBP for SEO.  What do you think of them?

What exactly are you using it for? I haven’t looked into it in a few years but most of these tools are good or little more than tracking links (your and competitors) and tracking indexation/rankings. Beyond that they aren’t really that usefull…

Anyway, time to start learning about SEO;

SEO threads on Site Reference
How to learn SEO(from the SR Blog)

And since I am in a good mood and feeling charitable... drop me yer email via PM and I shall send you a copy of my SEO ebook

As you go along the process simply come here and ask about aspects you are unsure of… the main areas are’;

Keyword research and targeting
On-site SEO (structural, SEF, content creation/maintenance etc..)
Off-site SEO ( link building, branding, reputation management etc…)

While Laurie’s advice gets better by the day ( becoming a real SEO Geek huh?) – I am troubled by the lack of focus in this thread. Until you (Lorri) get at least a hang of the basics, I fear much of the advice will be missed or misunderstood.

..and Laurie…. Tsk tsk..not using a browser that shows the ‘nofollowed’ links as you’d know the links here at SR are thus… so linking to his competitors is not a biggie… ;0)