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NO

NO

But really, I thought they'd die out over the years but they haven't. That leads me to believe they must work with some sub-set of the population.

Your not getting anything for Christmas.

this is a very skewed segment that's replying- 3 old   white,north american guys who all run their own internet business

no, but often the offer sounds convincing.
as you know, there's one born every minute and I think there are plenty out there that are anxious and keen enough to buy.

In that case i will hold the "you win some you lose some" theory, seriously, what was stopping him from turning that into three pages? ye know, make it look like website instead of a giant newspaper add

Last edited by Ryan_steyn (2007-11-14 08:12:21)

I'm asking, for that very reason -- "BECAUSE IT WORKS!"

Do people read the entire page? I keep trying to, but get flashbacks of my linguistics book in college -- the one that put me to sleep 4 times within the first chapter, before I gave up even trying to finish the chapter.

Anyone have the low-down on what percentage are honest? How about any clues as to how to figure out which are truthful? Isn't it just assumed if they keep showing "bank accounts" with 6 or more figures in it per day, week, or even month, it's time to get the chest high waders on and start shoving?!

If it works, should an old adage be updated to "If it seems too good to be true, it might or might not be too good to true?" Has anyone bought the info and the stuff was all the elongated page said it was?

One time, I took the time to read a mail version of one of those letters, spent $75 to get a D&B report on the company, checked out their BBB profile, and borrowed the money to buy the offering. The only thing I learned was, what else I should have done before financing their new family yacht, after they went bankrupt with the help of my money. That place wasn't even declaring a vault load of money (keeping it, but not declaring it) -- I trusted them (after checking) because they said, if I worked hard, I could make $4000 a month!

I kind of figured it works, but am not sure why or how, and more importantly, does it work honestly, and, assuming it does, how do you tell the rip-offs from the real McCoy?

Last edited by atwhatcost (2007-11-14 09:18:44)

NO!!
oh god NO!!

I would never buy anything from any sales page built to look like a letter. It'd be like buying viagra from a spam email!

BUT

I have a friend who used to play with these. He's stopped now since discovering that it was a disgusting way of making a living, but waybackwhen, he made an absolute fortune.

he's let me into a few of their secrets, so I kind of understand who buys from them and why. It's quite interesting, but still, eeeuuuuggghhh!

Digital goods and "systems" seem to be the fashion nowadays

The format is usually like so :

--------------------------------------------------------------------Page top----------------------------------------------------------

(insert 'tard name here) presents:

SOME LAME DIGITAL PRODUCT!

Here is an image of my name typed in a handwriting font, so it looks like a signature

Here is a stock photo of a happy looking normal guy in a suit


Dear Friend

---------------------------------------------------------------- FOLD (never write above the fold) ----------------------------

My name is (insert 'tard here) and I profess to being an expert in some field or other. I have made more money in an hour than you will make in your life using MY system, that only I know, but I'll give you the chance to have this system all for yourself right after I've shown you this:

Here are some testimonials written by my friends
here are some more stock photos

Again, i will profess to being an expert and tell you about the Yacht i bought with my first hours earnings.

And we'll have some more stock photos

hang on, I was wrong, I said I could make $100 a day.

sorry but I earnt $3m a second!! Ooops, aren't I silly?!?

Don't you feel like you've always known me?

Here's some randomised text that will baffle you a little and make you half forget that you're reading this with a view to buying anything. Usually I'll tell you about how I was "an ordinary joe" who worked in a steel mill, or scrubbed floors, just like you. Then I'll tell you about how my system got me lovings from all the fittest supermodels, and how Hugh Heffner asked me for a loan!!

Here's some text that makes you half believe that this product will be free

Here's some photoshopped image of a bank statement aledgedly showing my income last month

heres a stock photo of a big house that I claim to be my own

Here's a stock image of 4 cars next to a beach house

Have some more text, maybe even some questions regarding the readers wishes towards richness

And some more testimonials with yet more stock photos

BLAM, here's the price, near the bottom

Wow, sounds alot doesn't it, but just look at the stock photo of the big house again, and 1 of those 4 cars at a different angle, just to make it look real

And take another peek of the happy looking normal guy in a suit, I've photoshopped a really nice looking woman in her mid-thirties so I look like Ive got a wife. Look closely, you can even see the joins!!

Possibly my friends stock photos and some more testimonials


And hand over your cash here!

----------------------------------------------------------- PAGE END ---------------------------------------------------------

the most annoying thing is, they do work!

Not on me or you, or anyone with the intelligence to sign up to Site Reference in a bid to learn the ropes.
But they do work on people who have $100 sat in a shoe box and are looking to the internet to pay next months rent. the "system" is usually the page they've just read and an affiliate link to a web host.

You'll be hard pressed to find many SR members who've bought from them, but if you find a "money making" forum, you'll find plenty of the suckered and plundered <-- I had a better word for there, but chose not to use it!

It's a vile, disgusting way of earning a bloody fortune!

If they can get you to scroll down once, they can get you to scroll down again. You'll never find 2 pieces of actual information within the same screen, you always have to keep scrolling to find out more.

The conversions on people like you and I, would be abysmal, but apparently, given the right demographic (USA, male, about 30, wife, 2.4 kids, low income, credit card, crap job) the conversions are immense.

Vile though isn't it?

Griffin,
Ah ha! THAT's how they do it!

Must add "check for stock photos" to my lists of 11 ways to find out if the item is authentic. Long ago, I wrote an article teaching how to spot the frauds from the real McCoy. Just have never trusted any of them to be the real McCoy enough to do all the background checking, I've learned, the hard way, how to do.

Thanks for the low down -- have always wondered. Must have been tough for your friend to give up the easy money.

Nic,

They said you ‘could’- not “would” – a lot of factors will determine individual outcomes.

Well, I goofed. They said you "could" make more then that, but you "would" make that if you kept working the program. That's how the FTC ended up fining them for false advertisment. Stupid thing is, they could have just as easily paid the fine, reword the longwinded info, and stayed in business suckering more and more folks into it. (I had a 40 hour a week telecommuting - mostly - job that I'd do late at night or early in the morning, and on weekends, to spend the "real hours" plugging away at their this-will-work directions for 13 months, before they went "bankrupt." The main problem was no small businesses wanted what I was selling (and big businesses didn't need it.)

Nic,

I like to compare a lot of these ‘offers’ to ‘weight lose products’…

How many American you think buy weight lose products every year?

Now out of all those how many do you think use them, nevermind loose weight?

How many use them in accordance with a good diet and regular exercise?

Unless you have something genetically wrong with your body, no diet aid is needed if you watch calories -- don't even absolutely need to exercise. Rather gives a hint how useless they are to begin with, IMO. And as one who has struggled with her weight most of her life, even though, now that they discovered women can get taller then 5'10", so apparently I was the right weight most of my youth -- just "too tall," you'd think people would remember our recent history -- the pills that killed Elvis Presley, Black and White Beauties, death from diaretics, Phen/Phem, and some I remember, that most would never have heard about -- to know not to trust weight-loss products. Even the newest one, Hoodia, is fairly useless, unless you happened to live in the right area of Africa to grow your own, hard-to-grow plants. Since most of those products come with a 30-day money back, trial size, I'd guess the vast majority use them -- dieting and exercise being a little less likely.

Second you have to use it as described in accordance with other factors. In the case of the workout program you could use the example of a healthy diet. My buddy owns a gym, works out there more then 2 hours a day, plus does aerobics (for many years) and he’s still very fat. It’s not genetic as he was skinny a few years back- rather it’s his diet- all he eats is fast food and tons of it- so no matter how much he trains he still isn't loosing weight.

You're missing a factor -- body type. Before I met him (thankfully, I doubt I could have fallen for him the way he used to look, since it's just not in my taste in guys) hubby was into bodybuilding. He lifted 2-4 hours a day, and ate all he could manage -- 6 raw eggs from a blender with bread and butter for breakfast, 2 huge steaks for dinner, any thing, as long as half of his 3000-4000 calories per day came from protein. (He also had an active job doing heating and a/c.) He ended up weighing 340 with a 34 inch waist, looking like a professional bodybuilder, except not asymmetric enough. He gave up weight lifting for running 3-5 miles per morning and 10-12 miles on the weekend. Went down to 180 (way too thin for his size) with the same caloric in-take, ending up with a 28 inch waist, and discovered he could pull himself up onto scaffolding with just one arm. (Don't fear -- that was over 30 years ago, before he was disabled, and gravity has settled in. LOL) Anyway, healthy life style results differ greatly for each person.

I tend to "trust" weight related products, only after 20-30 years with no massive recalls or class-action lawsuits, and true proof they work. Much like the long winded sales pitch!

On the other hand - many are legitimate, but people think their scams because they didn’t become multi-millionaire overnight simply by ordering the products.

Also i'd consider less on what the product promises and more on what the product produces FOR YOU. If i pay $50 for an info product that promises i will make an extra $2000/month on adsense, I use it, and it produces an extra $100/month for me, well- i'm still better off even though that's no where close to what they promised.

Yes, I'm better off then I was before, BUT, again assuming I put the work into it, if it promised $2000 and I make $100, or if I didn't become a millionaire overnight, if that was promised -- I'm going back to the folks who sold it to me and asking what I'm doing wrong. If they find out it's not me, then they are still a scam, promising what wasn't delivered. George H.W. Bush told Americans to read his lips, "no new taxes." In his third year, he gave the people of the USA new taxes. THAT, too, was a scam. I don't care how big or small the business or person is, if you promise something to me, in exchange for me giving you something, better deliver, or you/it is a scam in my book. I'm the type to e-mail Burppee every winter, listing the plants or seeds that I bought from them that either never grew or died before their time. I get my money back, because they have a 1 year guarantee. I go back to them, year after year, because they do back up their guarantee with a refund! And you know some satisfied customers are more then happy to spread the good word!

#2- evaluate how easy it will be for you to get your $ back through a refund if the product is in fact a joke. Places like PayPal, 2CO, etc will in some cases refund your money if the offer is crap, and most of the time, the people you bought it from will give you a refund.

I'm apparently less trusting then most -- have had problems with PayPal/Ebay concerning getting money back after being conned (yup, another gardening place LOL). Better yet, buy with a credit card -- they tend to return your money to you, and then bust the people who scammed you for you. Only thing required is a letter (was snail-mail back in the days when I was often scammed, e-mail might work now) explaining the problem with your credit company. Debit cards are as useless as PayPal/Ebay!

And remember there is no cookie-cutter model to making a fortune online.

More importantly, remember there are no secrets. Ultimately, I've discovered that if there is good info on how to make money, it's already been written in a book, which can be rented from the library -- before deciding if it's worth buying -- or, for quick changing info, like SEO, learn enough to find out who has good advice, and get their info, even if paying for it is needed. Info I can get, without being scammed (thanks to this site), still working on learning how to understand it all.

griffinsbridge wrote:

the most annoying thing is, they do work!

Not on me or you, or anyone with the intelligence to sign up to Site Reference in a bid to learn the ropes.

I've bought a few myself and while i don't pretend to be the sharpest tool in the shed i did manage to dress myself this morning which i'm pretty proud of

If I've understood correctly, you don't count, Nic! You didn't sign-up, you bought up. If you're not the sharpest tool in the shed, it's only cuz you're not a tool that is supposed to be sharp -- just hardworking.

Have discovered, what I thought in the first place, althought I tried being as neutral as possible. No real need to read the long-winded ones. Generally speaking, short, and detail, might be worth investigating, IF it's something I'm interested in enough to enjoy, and only takes a little effort, given my limited abilities anymore. Not too many of them that are the real McCoy.