Site Reference Forums

Ok....ol' Gyp...

I  hate that I'm so "green" at all this stuff.  I feel like such a dummy while trying to understand EXACTLY what you're trying to teach me.  I have been studying HTML, XHTML, CSS, PHP, ASP, etc. at W3 Schools and have a pretty good understanding of HTML, XHTML, and CSS now.  I have the latest version of Adobe Creative Suite 3 Web Premium to help me slide by a little until I can get a FIRM understanding on how the whole process works together.

I have been organizing folders and files on my computer hard drive and my network directories at work for years (but I'm not a Web designer...I'm a Construction Engineer).  I can program in Micorsoft Access and Crystal reports.  I know quite a bit about  any of the Microsoft Office applications.  But when it comes to knowing how to organize a folder(s) for a website on my hard drive for upload to a server to publish a live site I'm completely lost.  After reading your last post, I felt compelled to go straight to Google and search for "setting up a website directory" just so I could understand the basics (and I do mean BASICS).  Didn't find a lick.  W3 Schools doesn't seem to have any insight either.

Let's see if I can at least come close to what you're trying to teach me...

Directory tree on my hard drive for upload to a web server:


Basket4picnic Site (folder)
      Index.html (folder)
          Home.htm
              picnic-baskets.htm
                   wicker-picnic-baskets.htm
                   vintage-picnic-bakets.htm
        coolers.htm
            rolling-coolers.htm

And here would be the URL's for the above directory tree (.htm extensions not included because all of the files are in a folder named "index.html":

www.mysite.com/home/
www.mysite.com/home/picnic-baskets/
www.mysite.com/home/picnic-baskets/wick … c-baskets/
www.mysite.com/home/picnic-baskets/vint … c-baskets/
www.mysite.com/home/coolers/
www.mysite.com/home/coolers/rolling-coolers/

Am I getting close????

Last edited by GP Michal (2007-09-07 19:24:39)

Ok...I think I'm starting....and I did say...STARTING to get it...

www.yoursite.tld  /buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html
What is the extension .tld all about?  I've never seen that before tonight.  Other than that...I kind of see that you're building KWP's in the URL here.  If someone was searching for "buy wicker baskets" or "buy vintage baskets" this URL would help my ranking for those KWP's, correct??

Root Directory - yoursite.tld
So I actually name a folder "basket4picnic.tld"???

Folder - BUY ( you could have a index page with some related content or not.. always a good idea)
Can you expand on what an "index page" is?  I know you've referred to them as "index.html" but that doesn't seem too SEO friendly.  Is it simply a page that lists your categories or somehthing like a table of contents??

Folder - WICKER-BASKETS  ( you could have a index page with some related content or not.. always a good idea)
Same question on the index page thing and also the related content.

Page - VINTAGE-BASKETS.HTML -- Within the WICKER-BASKETS directory ( or folder)

This would give you the desired effect...... That helping?

Last edited by GP Michal (2007-09-07 20:22:49)

related tibits --

Let’s dissect the parts of a URL (uniform resource locator). I’ll tell you how we typically refer to different parts of a URL at Google. Here’s a valid URL which has lots of components:

http://video.google.co.uk:80/videoplay? … #00h02m30s

Here are some of the components of the url:

The protocol is http. Other protocols include https, ftp, etc.
The host or hostname is video.google.co.uk.
The subdomain is video.
The domain name is google.co.uk.
The top-level domain or TLD is uk. The uk domain is also referred to as a country-code top-level domain or ccTLD. For google.com, the TLD would be com.
The second-level domain (SLD) is co.uk.


The port is 80, which is the default port for web servers. Other ports are possible; a web server can listen on port 8000, for example. When the port is 80, most people leave out the port.
The path is /videoplay. Path typically refers to a file or location on the web server, e.g. /directory/file.html
This URL has parameters. The name of one parameter is docid and the value of that parameter is -7246927612831078230. URLs can have lots parameters. Parameters start with a question mark (?) and are separated with an ampersand (&).

See the “#00h02m30s”? That’s called a fragment or a named anchor. The Googlers I’ve talked to are split right down the middle on which way to refer it. Disputes on what to call it can be settled with arm wrestling, dance-offs, or drinking contests.  Typically the fragment is used to refer to an internal section within a web document. In this case, the named anchor means “skip to 2 minutes and 30 seconds into the video.” I think right now Google standardizes urls by removing any fragments from the url.

What is a static url vs. a dynamic url? Technically, we consider a static url to be a document that can be returned by a webserver without the webserver doing any computation. A dynamic url is a document that requires the webserver to do some computation before returning the web document.

Some people simplify static vs. dynamic urls to an easier question: “Does the url have a question mark?” If the url has a question mark, it’s usually considered dynamic; no question mark in the url often implies a static url. That’s not a hard and fast rule though. For example, urls that look static like http://news.google.com/ may require some computation by the web server. Most people just refer to urls as static or dynamic based on whether it has a question mark though.

from; http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-gloss … finitions/

Morning Michal - closer we are now, yes? ( best Yoda impression I got)

I think I'm starting to get it. I was experimenting around a little and created a practice directory structure in the "C:\Inetpub\wwwroot" folder on my hard drive. Looked someting like this:

C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\basket4picnic\buy\wicker-baskets\vintage-baskets.html

So...when I go to the brower, I type:

http://localhost/basket4picnic/buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html

and the vintage-basket page displays.

C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\basket4picnic -- this part won’t matter as once the site is uploaded to the server it resolves to the domain name www.basket4picnic.com/

So the URL would be basket4picnic.com /buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html

Why won't my page display if I name the root folder "basket4picnic.com"? If I leave the ".com" off it works fine.

Like I said above, once uploaded, that part is automatic. You don’t actually upload the folder that is the root on your hard drive.

2. In one example I saw concerning the use of an "index.html" page, the index.html page was stored in the root directory folder and used as the "home page". Is this standard practice? If so, why doesn't one have to have to type "index.html" at the end of the path in the browser address bar to get the home page to display? i.e. If I used index.html for my home page; www.basket4picnic.com/index.html, I think all I would have to type is "www.basket4picnic.com" in the browser address bar to get it to display. Why is that? To see any other page, one would have to make sure the that the "pagename.html" was entered in the address bar.

The web server looks in each directory for the default page - this is usually index ( htm,html,php, etc..) or in cases with a Windows box it can be ‘default.htm whatever. So there is no need to link to it or type in the full URL as the server automatically will display if should it exists. That is what I mean on the points above about having a default page in the dicrectories we created(or not).

For much of this you’ll need to bone up on the HTML/Web development knowledge my friend…. Sounds like your at the beginning of a verrrryyyy long road… tee hee…..

… and away we go……

GP Michal wrote:

In our previous browser path...www.mysite.com/buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html, we agreed that we were building the URL so it would rank well for the following KWP's:

buy wicker baskets
buy vintage baskets

1. Ok...I envision the .html  target page optimized around the KWP's "vintage baskets, buy vintage baskets, wicker baskets, buy wicker baskets"  I'm not sure if "buy vintage baskets" in this case would be considered SE-friendly because the word "buy" is separated from the words "vintage-basket".  Does this matter?  Does having words separated with the "/" symbol matter?

2. I assume you chose directory names merely for the sake of example.  If my core page was optimized around "vintage baskets", I would consider them to be more closely related to "English style baskets" instead of "wicker baskets".  Therefore I would rather see "/buy/english-style-baskets/vintage-baskets.html"...or...perhaps even "/buy/wicker-baskets/english-style-baskets/vintage-baskets.html".  Is the goal here to include KWP's for URL buiding closely-related  to your core .html page so that one could enhance the chance to receive more traffic to the page?  If so, are three KWP's too many for a URL?  I once read that a good KWP stategy was to optimize your home page around 2-4 KWP's, the category page around 1-3, and the target page no more than 2 KWP's.  What is your stand on that philosophy?

1. While those are the core terms we're after, we'd also sprinkle the page content with semanticall related phrases that the SE would expect to see on the page -- but yes, that is the idea. You would almost look at the URL as a sentence. So, the fact there is a break doesn't matter. They will still be ragisted in it's totality - further targeting of the terms with the onpage text will do the rest. Keep in mind, this is merely a small part of the over-all SEO process for these terms, a leg up, not the end route. There is much more to be done onsite as well as offsite.


2. You seem to have the idea now. --- Our directory structure (URL) is actually targeting a few things from core terms to long tail stuff.

basket4picnic.com /buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html  gives us a few things;

Picnic Basket
Picnic baskets
Buy Picnic baskets
Buy Wicker Baskets
Wicker Picnic Baskets
Vintage Wicker Picnic Baskets
Buy Vintage Wicker Picnic Baskets

..and so on.

There is no real set order. If the home page and subsequent interior pages along the path are targeted, we can target more than a few things along the way. Ultimately it will be the link building process that truly defines which are the target pages for which phrases, but by nursing things along wit the onsite stuff ( page content and directory structures/page naming conventions) we can grab some secondary rankings with minimal effort.

Once again, the page naming conventions/structure will only give us a certain amount of weight in the ranking process.. it is not a means to an end.

GP Michal wrote:

Ok, ol' Gyp...I think we're about through here.  One last consideration.....

When using IBP Top-10 analyzer, the software compares your site to the top ten sites it finds for a particular KWP let's say....on Google.  One of the things it compares is the key word density (KWD) in the URL.  If it finds that my URL has a KWD that is much higher (or lower) than the top ten sites, the software recommends that I modify my URL to match them.  So...in our previous examples, IBP might tell me that the sites that are showing up on the first page of Google for that particular KWP only use the word "basket" in their URL's from 1-2 times.  If I'm using it 4 times, or even only 3 times in my URL, IPB would recommend me to have no more than 2 occurrences of "basket" in my URL in order to match my competitors.  Their philosphsy is...."your competitors are  on the 1st page of Google....they must be doing something right."

I can't wait to hear your comments on this one!

GP

Just clone your competitor’s site and you will be #1, not. LOL IMO its all meaningless bunk, especially this part:

Their philosphsy is...."your competitors are  on the 1st page of Google....they must be doing something right."

TheGypsy wrote:

GP Michal wrote:

In our previous browser path...www.mysite.com/buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html, we agreed that we were building the URL so it would rank well for the following KWP's:

buy wicker baskets
buy vintage baskets

1. Ok...I envision the .html  target page optimized around the KWP's "vintage baskets, buy vintage baskets, wicker baskets, buy wicker baskets"  I'm not sure if "buy vintage baskets" in this case would be considered SE-friendly because the word "buy" is separated from the words "vintage-basket".  Does this matter?  Does having words separated with the "/" symbol matter?

2. I assume you chose directory names merely for the sake of example.  If my core page was optimized around "vintage baskets", I would consider them to be more closely related to "English style baskets" instead of "wicker baskets".  Therefore I would rather see "/buy/english-style-baskets/vintage-baskets.html"...or...perhaps even "/buy/wicker-baskets/english-style-baskets/vintage-baskets.html".  Is the goal here to include KWP's for URL buiding closely-related  to your core .html page so that one could enhance the chance to receive more traffic to the page?  If so, are three KWP's too many for a URL?  I once read that a good KWP stategy was to optimize your home page around 2-4 KWP's, the category page around 1-3, and the target page no more than 2 KWP's.  What is your stand on that philosophy?

1. While those are the core terms we're after, we'd also sprinkle the page content with semanticall related phrases that the SE would expect to see on the page -- but yes, that is the idea. You would almost look at the URL as a sentence. So, the fact there is a break doesn't matter. They will still be ragisted in it's totality - further targeting of the terms with the onpage text will do the rest. Keep in mind, this is merely a small part of the over-all SEO process for these terms, a leg up, not the end route. There is much more to be done onsite as well as offsite.


2. You seem to have the idea now. --- Our directory structure (URL) is actually targeting a few things from core terms to long tail stuff.

basket4picnic.com /buy/wicker-baskets/vintage-baskets.html  gives us a few things;

Picnic Basket
Picnic baskets
Buy Picnic baskets
Buy Wicker Baskets
Wicker Picnic Baskets
Vintage Wicker Picnic Baskets
Buy Vintage Wicker Picnic Baskets

..and so on.

There is no real set order. If the home page and subsequent interior pages along the path are targeted, we can target more than a few things along the way. Ultimately it will be the link building process that truly defines which are the target pages for which phrases, but by nursing things along wit the onsite stuff ( page content and directory structures/page naming conventions) we can grab some secondary rankings with minimal effort.

Once again, the page naming conventions/structure will only give us a certain amount of weight in the ranking process.. it is not a means to an end.

Sorry if you already covered it Dave. But I wanted to add that those conventions should be applied to images as well. Google Images can be a referrer and bring some additional traffic, though conversion percentages on images are generally low.

As Charles already said, each site is UNIQUE from an SEO standpoint. What works for one site will not necessarily work for another. You see rankings are based on a myriad of factors, but 2 of the more important ones are AGE and BACKLINKs …. Simply comparing your site to a top SERP site merely using some on-page factors is flawed. The first things I do when looking at top competitors for a term is see when it was registered/created and the Link Profile.

Let’s register 2 sites….. You take the first one and do ALL of the recommendations for the on-page SEO. Sit back and wait.

I will take the second and simply put my text on a page, a TITLE tag, plan out my page naming conventions and build a few hundred links to it (targeted with chosen text of course)

Guess who will rank higher?

Me of course…. All the on page optimization in the world won’t help you without backlinks. Get the rudimentary work done for the on page and get on with the task of Link Profile Development. That is what will ultimately get you ranked. Once the link building process is underway ( some directory submissions and article marketing will do) you can then go back and start tweaking the on-page stuff.

Is it important to do as much as possible on-page optimization? Certainly .. The more competitive the term, the more advantages you’ll want. My point is that it is NOT the top level activities… merely additives…


As for KW Density, I once again refer folks to what I consider to be BAD SEO….. You’d be much better off learning about Phrase Based Optimization -- http://www.site-reference.com/articles/ … ation.html


Oh and Michal, I noticed U gave up on waiting for me and bought a certain eBook.. He he.. Thanks. Being a proud owner now, feel free to email me now and again, I help here and there with all those in my ‘family’ …..

Last edited by TheGypsy (2007-09-09 10:19:50)

Link Building now? Moving along .....

http://forums.site-reference.com/topic/ … ng-Basics/