Site Reference Forums

Oh no -- not that "Dr. Phil of the Internet Who Knows It All and everybody else is just plain stupid" ...

This was listed as an article in the Site Reference Newsletter -- so where's the article?  Or was it just a goof?  Dang it, I wanted to know how badly I'm messing up! 

Andria

TA,
Ummm, I didn't know some of it, so, apparently, one of us is just plain stupid. I also think simple basic articles are good. Remember, again, some of us ARE stupid, or...realistically, either new to the whole concpet of creating websites or reading so much info on it from this site, that refresher courses in the basics are appreciated. (Hoping no one puts 2 and 2 together to realize, since my site is often aimed towards kids and to folks, who just come online, cuz they really like stuffed animals, the basics for web design is perfect for my audience, too.)

Comic sans is not acceptable on any website - it may not be supported by the end user

Northie, bummer, never bought a computer without it preinstalled. I sure wish there was standardization on computers for fonts, including not-so-utilitarian ones, or better yet, the ability to see unusual fonts, even if your computer doesn't have them. Ariel is so boringingly utilitarian, as are the other few standard fonts. Thanks for the response, and, oh yeah, 12 px IS easier to use then 3 or 4 size, since the later changes according to the particular font. Doh!

As for boxes with arrow --nah, gonna stick with the tried and true -- bright blue font with underlining for links.

And for anyone, who reads this thread, now -- I didn't link to the article I'm responding to, at first, so Andria's question is reasonable. On the other hand, thanks, Mods, for linking to it. I just never think to do that.

-- I use Opera and it seems half the sites I want to visit have either flash or some Javascript gizmo, so if I REALLY want to see those sites I have to fire up the ol' IE, which kind of negates

Ello? why not just use firefox? if you cant view something you can literally just "click" on it and wam bam thank you mam you can see what so funny about the dodgy flash vid of monkeys drinking there own pee.

In other words, firefox finds and downloads any plugins you may need when you need them - and firefox is the best... by far, especially when you are at the point of having to fire up ie to see something, its not fair on you that you should have to resort to such measures.

Ryan_steyn wrote:

Ello? why not just use firefox? if you cant view something you can literally just "click" on it and wam bam thank you mam you can see what so funny about the dodgy flash vid of monkeys drinking there own pee.

its not fair on you that you should have to resort to such measures.

I completely agree, but since I do make sites myself, I usually have IE open anyhow (it's prevalent enough to be the usual standard I code for, though I do make sure everything still looks good in Opera).

I looked at Firefox a few months ago, but found it too slow.  It did seem to be evolving pretty rapidly however, so perhaps that has changed or will, as it goes on.  I have a reasonably fast system, P4 2.8GHz w/1 Gb and a DSL internet connection, so a program that seems slow on that, probably is. 

Opera has some features I really like, so unless/until Firefox gets a whole lot faster/niftier, I'll probably stick with Opera, resorting to IE as needed (just try getting anything off a Microsoft site without it! hah!). 

Andria

atwhatcost wrote:

TA,
Ummm, I didn't know some of it, so, apparently, one of us is just plain stupid. I also think simple basic articles are good. Remember, again, some of us ARE stupid, or...realistically, either new to the whole concpet of creating websites or reading so much info on it from this site, that refresher courses in the basics are appreciated.

As for boxes with arrow --nah, gonna stick with the tried and true -- bright blue font with underlining for links.

On the other hand, thanks, Mods, for linking to it. I just never think to do that.

I didn't say anyone here is stupid -- go back and re-read how I worded that.

AndriaD wrote:

I looked at Firefox a few months ago, but found it too slow.  It did seem to be evolving pretty rapidly however, so perhaps that has changed or will, as it goes on.  I have a reasonably fast system, P4 2.8GHz w/1 Gb and a DSL internet connection, so a program that seems slow on that, probably is.

Andria

It's not that Firefox is slow, but has everything to do with your Internet speed -- MicroSTOOPID IE is one very slow browser, and times out more often on websites -- Firefox is far better; faster; and doesn't load all of the crap that MicroSTOOPID IE does in their browser.

atwhatcost wrote:

That was a pretty good article, but I don't think I learned anything new from it.

I'm thinking that anyone who has already created, through hand coding, their own site won't learn anything new from this one. It's more for we remedial/website challenged folks.

Yeah, I guess it was more for beginners; I suppose I thought that folks hanging around a web design resource site probably weren't beginners, but old hands like me -- but maybe not.  As for the hand coding, show me a wysiwyg editor that produces code a) correctly, and b) without major bloat from unnecessary code, and I'll at least try it out.  I simply haven't found a better way to do it than with Homesite.  When I first started in '99, I tried all kinds of things, but it seemed implicit that if I wanted something really unique and interesting and that really worked (without those javascript error msgs in the status line!), I needed to learn the code.  It's pretty easy; the hardest part, I found, was in making the translation from 2D visual (the web page) to the linear code.  Also all that yack about having the code work on different platforms -- so I learned CSS to kind of get around that, though there are some differences there too.

I've been writing articles for a couple of years now (I take a long time to write a single article and reworking it, until I think it's worth publishing LOL) and I'm holding on to them, waiting for the site I am working on now to be "unveiled." One of those articles is about 25 different ways a web designer can get me back clicking in 3 seconds or less, and, even then, I find myself constrand by the number "25." Funny thing though, some sites that get me running away are actually working for conversion. Some times it's just personal taste.

That being said, I'm never annoyed by sounds from any site -- my mute is set for off,

Thanks for the link. Will check it out.

You're welcome, I hope you find it useful.  It's not for every site, obviously, but there are times it can come in really handy.

I play my own music on my system, since I have this nice Logitech subwoofer system, so I really dislike having sounds thrust at me from websites.  Heck, back in the old days (Win 3.1, anyone remember it? ) I used to have my motherboard speaker disconnected, so it couldn't blast me out of my chair at 3am with it's various beeps and dings. I don't react well to unexpected noises.  (picture Bill the Cat, if you can recall that -- )

As for the articles -- how does one get started on that?  I've been doing this almost 8 yrs, maybe it's time I put my knowledge to use in some other fashion, and I do like to write. (NO!) 

Andria

the only form of "slow"  i experience with firefox is the intitial loading, then its nippy, one must bare in mind all the features that load into firefox everytime you start it. from the simple webpage timer to the full on webdev kit and firefox updates for installed ad ons. if one puts puts it into perspective - you could keep on driving around the warzone in a jeep that gets to 80 in 10sec or you can drive around in a tank that takes 12 seconds to get to 80 and has a coffee machine.

oh yeah... TA wasnt calling anyone stoopid... he was simply stating the obvious about the obvious article which explains the obvious... GO PHIL he he

Last edited by Ryan_steyn (2007-06-07 01:44:31)

I didn't say anyone here is stupid -- go back and re-read how I worded that.

TA, I know. You didn't call anyone here stupid - I did. ME! (Stupid is as stupid does. LOL)

Yeah, I guess it was more for beginners; I suppose I thought that folks hanging around a web design resource site probably weren't beginners, but old hands like me -- but maybe not.  As for the hand coding, show me a wysiwyg editor that produces code a) correctly, and b) without major bloat from unnecessary code, and I'll at least try it out.  I simply haven't found a better way to do it than with Homesite.  When I first started in '99, I tried all kinds of things, but it seemed implicit that if I wanted something really unique and interesting and that really worked (without those javascript error msgs in the status line!), I needed to learn the code.  It's pretty easy; the hardest part, I found, was in making the translation from 2D visual (the web page) to the linear code.  Also all that yack about having the code work on different platforms -- so I learned CSS to kind of get around that, though there are some differences there too.

Andrea, technically, I guess I'm not really a beginner, since I've been trying to make websites since back in the AOL 2.0 days. (Unsuccessfully, back then.) I've been using Site Builder for the last few years, but I actually wanted my personal website(s) to be quickly found by googling (ambitious goal considering the obvious KWs for my sites are "Teddy Bears") -- thus, eventually wandered onto this site. Was working on all the marketing ideas I learned here, when I slowly noticed (how I know I AM "website challenged") what everyone was saying about handcoding. Tried hard not to notice all that part, since this old dog does have trouble learning new tricks. Finally, a mere 10 years after creating my first website online, I'm now learning html. CSS and XHTML will come later. If I could find a wysiwyg that does do good coding AND doesn't cost a minor fortune (DreamWeaver is good, from what I hear, but I can think of more enjoyable ways to spend that kind of money), I would let everyone know!

The interesting thing about SR is the variety of reasons folks wander onto this site. It's not just about creating websites, but also includes SEO, affiliate marketing, marketing in general, and occasionally, articles and rants about how Google does what it does. Add to that the different levels the information comes in -- from simplistic stuff for folks like me to advanced stuff that flies way over my head -- and this place does seem to be a good place for beginners, intermediates and advanced folks to come together and learn. I'm not so sure if the advanced folks learn here too, but give me another 10-20 years here, so I can become one of them, and I'll let you know.

I play my own music on my system, since I have this nice Logitech subwoofer system, so I really dislike having sounds thrust at me from websites.  Heck, back in the old days (Win 3.1, anyone remember it?  ) I used to have my motherboard speaker disconnected, so it couldn't blast me out of my chair at 3am with it's various beeps and dings. I don't react well to unexpected noises.  (picture Bill the Cat, if you can recall that --  )

3.11 was the reason I turned off sounds on my computer. Exactly why does anyone need to hear -- every frigging time -- sounds telling us we've booted up or are shutting down our computers? Hubby doesn't turn off his sounds, so I know that MS has never changed those annoying sounds. I enjoy silence greatly -- an odd trait for someone, who moved into a major city. LOL)

As for the articles -- how does one get started on that?  I've been doing this almost 8 yrs, maybe it's time I put my knowledge to use in some other fashion, and I do like to write. (NO!)

I like to write on a variety of levels, so hearing that you don't is almost as strange as hearing someone doesn't like chocolate. Getting ideas for articles is also easy. (You saw what Phil's article was missing, so write an article about you think the biggest design mistakes are. You've almost written an article about the downsides of wysiwyg editors, add the advantages to handcoding, or which basic editors work the best, and you've got yourself another article. Write about whatever you're passionate about, stuff that drives you nuts, or teach Noobs a little about any topic you know enough about to broaden the horizons of folks just starting to learn about it.)

For me there are two hard parts about writing articles -- 1.) trying to come up with an article that's actually related to my sites' themes, and 2.) getting it grammatically correct and flows easily. (OK, obviously, I also have trouble with keeping my writing short, too. )

Once you have it written, just do a search on this forum about where to publish articles and you'll find shortened lists and search terms to find where to publish your article. (I prefer e-zines, since they read submitted articles, so you know it had to pass some kind of scrutiny before publishing, -- less chance of feeling embarassed later on -- and, of course, if it's website related, SR is always looking for new articles.) At the very least, since you hate writing, you don't have to worry about due dates, grading, or exact word lengths. And, don't worry -- if it sucks, we're all here to tell you so. LOL

Not necessarily -- web designers are totally different from those who write articles.

I guess this is more for the "oh web design looks so easy and I can design a great site without knowing anything" people.  And the less intelligent (not idiots).

Acrode, not exactly! Web design IS so easy, if all you do is use WYSIWYG. I doubt anyone starts out with the thought "I'm going to make a great site," more of a "I wanna share my pictures (links, stories, drawings, etc.) with friends and family" or "I wanna make money online." It takes that first step, before we start learning that we need to know more (if we ever get to that point. I know more folks online with mediocre to downright decent websites, who've never caught the bug for wanting more out of their sites, then I know folks, who have really taken on the desire to make the best site possible, and I've come to know quite a few of the later type from this site.) One thing I'm fairly sure with all those people though, not a single one considered Flash easy. Since the article includes a "don't" about Flash, it is also aimed at those folks, who have become technically sound without considering the needs of visitors. "Website Creation and Marketing" isn't a subject covered in tradtional schooling, so the only way anyone comes to realize all the intricacies involved is a series of lessons stumbled upon some where throughout the process of learning about the Internet. With that, steps are omitted along the line for most.

As for writers, or even those, who have the ability to get an article published, even if merely for free online, that doesn't make them less intelligent -- merely knowledgable in a different area. And this is written by someone who considers herself "stupid" ("challeneged" is a nicer description ) when it comes to creating websites, yet can write. LOL

And, to add my one cent (not even worth two) to the browser topic, if Firefox or IE is slow to upload, I simply click it off and try again. I have DSL and live three houses away from the nearest substation, so if my browser takes longer then five seconds to load up, it's simply a fluke. Try again and it usually loads quickly. If you have DSL (sorry, Ryan, hopefully some day you get to enjoy DSL, or even better, fiber optics) and it always takes longer to load up any browser, contact your provider and ask for the cheaper package -- chances are good, you're far enough away from the nearest substaion, so you shouldn't be getting charged for something that doesn't work fast! There's two prices for DSL around here -- $33 for folks close to substations, or $18 for folks who aren't.