Site Reference Forums

mark wrote:

The original intent was to tell all the 'wanna be' SEO's to stop pontificating and start doing the research if they want to be taken seriously.

This depends on who you define as a "wanna be SEO" ...

in your article you write:

mark wrote:

how many articles have you read and how many forum discussions have you seen in which
webmasters try their hardest to play the SEO and explain what needs to be done to get a top ranking?

and i think that's statement includes 2 separate groups who should not be confused as 1:

1. People who represent themselves as SEO experts by writing articles
2. People who try to help each other through forums such as this one

I'll agree with you on the first group- if people go out and make a claim they are experts (which is usually the case when writing an article) but have no clue what they are truly talking about then they are to blame for spreading false info and should indeed "shut up".  These people are usually out to get traffic and sales and prey on "newbies" to buy into their expert status. In this case these so called experts are to blame.

However the case for forums is different. Within forums such as this one, newbies come and post questions in hopes of learning from "experts". For the most part the people replying don't count themselves as expert but may have some insight (right or wrong) which they share. Their aim is usually only to be helpful. I find that most of the time if a reply is inaccurate- others in the forum will point it out and in the end the right info is provided. However this is not always the case. Either way- within forums i leave the responsibility to the reader to do all the research for themselves and not to rely on the replies of one or 2 people. However i'm glad people are here to share their knowledge (even if they are not all experts at everything)- because together we learn a lot.

Anywho...I think you hit the nail on the head with your conclusions so a kudos to you Mark! 

TA wrote:

Thanks Mark, for writing that -- in all of my years, I've always said I've never seen an "Expert" at anything ... it's just a word that sombody came up with years ago to indicate that someone knew more about a particular subject than you, and was allegedly well-versed about the subject at hand.

I get sooo damn pissed at the "Weather Channel" and that stupid jackass "Steve Lyons" -- the entire staff calls him an "Expert" on every type of weather situation ... he doesn't know anymore than the average person who steps outside and looks at the skies...

I do think that there are legit SEO experts out there - but they are few and far between.  You have to listen carefully and study a person for a while to figure out if they really know what they are talking about.

For example, I consider Aaron Wall to be a pretty good SEO expert.  Why?  Well, he ranks in the top 5 for 'SEO', a keyword that every SEO out there is probably vying for.  He somehow is ranking towards the top of the list.  Do I trust what he says?  For the most part, yes.  He gives intelligent posts, has quite a bit of backing in the industry, and has some proof behind his words.

Oh, crap! Just as I put down that paper bag I've been breathing into, so I can quit hyperventalating about getting the new site perfectly optimized, I had to go and read this thread. Granted, Mark's article did help me put the bag away, since he said pretty much what I've been trying to balance out in the new (not yet uploaded) site, but now I'm obsessing over "experts!" Yeesh!

My trusted "experts" come from this very forum. Sure, just about everyone who even lurks on this forum are probably "experts," if I use the word to mean "knows more then I do," but there is a large handful of people, who I truly trust for info, AND a few others, whose opinions I covet, because they always go for the other, lesser accepted, side, giving me a fuller picture.

Out of these experts, only one does SEO for a living. ( :::cough Gypsy::::: ) Several others use SEO and other website necessities, like design and graphics, professionally to keep their sites high up on SERPs. The rest just seem to rarely get the "I disagree" messages back when they post (and they post often.) Since the one designated "SEO expert" responds in agreement with, or with additional info after their posts, shouldn't I trust these people, also? And, since the ones, who do get "I disagree" responses know that will happen, and even explain why, aren't they worth considering, too?

Seems to me experts come in stages like teachers do. Many of them are merely tutors -- those who have done something well enough to help those just learning. (I sometimes consider myself a tutor, since I've been researching vague and popular terms online for over 15 years now.) Some are student teachers -- having learned all relevant knowledge in advance courses, and are now able to teach those who are just learning it the first time. And then you get into elementary school, middle school, and high school teachers, all needing to know information enough to pass it on to different levels of learners. Finally, there are the university teachers, professors, and Phd's, who tend to know much more then the average person ever wants to know, but can still disseminate the info down to less learned people.

I disagree with TA, mostly because I consider TA an expert. So, he's not in the SEO field -- he still has learned enough about it to teach the vast majority of us on this board, a thing or two.

One thing I think anyone can do, provided they hang out in such forums as this and keep reading the articles -- we can seperate the good from the bad, most of the time. And those times we can't? Always a good time to post the question, and learn from the "experts."

I read the article.

Odd, a whole sector of website development that requires us to interpret and weigh the impressions and opinions of a group of people that are interpreting and weighing different experiences and opinions about the behaviors and factors of formulas and algorithms that they have to admit they don't have access to..

Or necessarily agree on:
http://forums.site-reference.com/topic/ … rs-Report/

That said, I have learned a lot here and elsewhere It's just that the rhetoric and evident confusion makes one's eyes light up when they see "Why Most "SEO's" Need to Shut Up", in print.

TA wrote:

I get sooo damn pissed at the "Weather Channel" and that stupid jackass "Steve Lyons" -- the entire staff calls him an "Expert" on every type of weather situation ... he doesn't know anymore than the average person who steps outside and looks at the skies...

That's because, in Arizona anyway, there are just the two forecasts:

• Sunny
• Extremely Sunny

And we can't figure out why we don't get 1.2 mil. & the benefit package for knowing it.

MarkCCDC wrote:

Ok...


There are  "Expert Weather Forecasters", huh?

QUIT TELLING FLORIDIANS THERE IS GONNA BE 25 BILLION NAMED TROPICAL STORMS OR WHATEVER THE CLAIM IS THIS YEAR!

My "expert" knowledge for FL Tropic Storms in 2007?! At least one! (Barry!)

Now, that I know how to expertly tell the weather for AZ and FL, show me the $$$!!!

Y'all pay close attention -- I AM a Weather "Expert", having lived in every climate, including "Hurricane Alley" ... film at 11:00...

Well, as a former FULL TIME pontificator of all things SEO - I have learned the practice of ‘Shutting Up’.

1.    Handing out free advice don’t pay the bills
2.    People with little knowledge tend to argue things I know to be FACTS from my time hanging with Ol MC and other studies

In the end the fundamental flaw in SEO is that NO ONE really knows EXACTLY how things work. This leaves the industry ripe for misinformation and guesswork. Imagine being an auto mechanic and not having the manufacturer information. How about a building contractor with no blue prints? You get the idea.

I have long said that the industry needs some form of governing body or associations to legitimize itself.

In the end I don’t put nearly as much weight into SEO as the ‘life saver’ as some would. Depending on SEO for marketing is not the greatest idea IMO – though if your one of the ‘I have no money to market’ crowd – it may be the only option (other than GETTING OUT OF BUSINESS – likely more prudent if ya got no dough)

Even past the marketing arena – all the traffic in the world won’t mean squat if it doesn’t convert.

SEO is not rocket science ( though it does require studies into engineering) – You should be able to do well enough on your own if you have the time to dedicate to learning, targeting, building and maintaining your SEO status.

If not – hire some one.

In the end I will go with the concept of – what use is traffic if your website/product/service SUCKS… Running a business covers many areas of expertise. SEO is simply one area within the larger body of ‘Internet Marketing’ – it is NOT the focus of ones ultimate success of failure.

…ramble..ramble….ramble…..