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I feel guilty asking such novice questions on this message board

Don't!

The article started as a thread on the forums. the idea was that SEO experts could add important parts of their knowledge that just are not obvious to beginners. As no one seemed to add anything I let SR publish as an article in the hope that it may help someone. (I can hear someone saying, "No, you did it for the link" - they fluffed the link, it doesn't work, ).

I'm now happy to take the time to answer some of your questions, some of the advice I gave may not be applicable to all who are reading, but I'll give it a go anyway.

I don't get the entire IP address thingy

Put really simply - an IP address is the address of a computer, on a network, in computer speak.
the maths and logic behind it is still obscure to me sometimes, but I don't let the worry me (not yet anyway!)

An ip address is usually written like this
209.85.76.114

I don't quite understand what a C class is still,

Good reading - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subnetwork
simply put - The c class is 3rd set of numbers in the above example (209.8..........).

how do I find out if my IP's are the same or not?

If your local computer (the one you are using now) is running windows, go to
'Start > run...'
type in 'cmd'
click 'ok'
[you will get a dos promt (you can exit it by typing 'exit' and pressing return]
At the dos promt type 'ping site.com'
where site.com is your domain name, (eg I typed articledocs.com), and this is what I got

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]

(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.



C:\Documents and Settings\store>ping articledocs.com



Pinging articledocs.com [209.85.76.114] with 32 bytes of data:



Reply from 209.85.76.114: bytes=32 time=129ms TTL=43

Reply from 209.85.76.114: bytes=32 time=126ms TTL=43

Reply from 209.85.76.114: bytes=32 time=126ms TTL=43

Reply from 209.85.76.114: bytes=32 time=129ms TTL=43



Ping statistics for 209.85.76.114:

    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

    Minimum = 126ms, Maximum = 129ms, Average = 127ms



C:\Documents and Settings\store>

you can see the domain name has been translated into an IP address.

if they are the same, is there anyway I can just tell the search engines that they are all different?

I wish - that gets into the realm of black hatters

Redirects and unfriendly URLs
reading your questions here - it finally dawned on me that you may not have access to all the fun server tools and toys that my article originally touched upon. for example

Aren't we pretty much stuck with the URL our provider gives us?

I know nothing about site builders or bravenet. I choose my domain name, buy it, then buy a hosting package. I have full control over everything, because I am paying for that service. If you have free hosting then a lot of this access is revoked - customers may be malicious or ignorant - both can easily break things, but with very different intentions.

I may add more to this post later this evening, look out for an edit!
(Or I'll post a new reply)
Feel free to let this block of explanations sink in and then ask some more questions

thegyspsy wrote:

As for the hosting, it is unlikely with BN or SiteBuilder will allow much in the way of server access and requirements for Redirects, you'd likely have to ask them

thought so

Oh, Northie, it’s you! You’re the author! Didn’t realize! Cool!

As no one seemed to add anything, I let SR publish as an article in the hope that it may help someone. (I can hear someone saying, "No, you did it for the link" - they fluffed the link, it doesn't work,  ).

Ummm, I noticed it went no where, but assumed my computer was acting up yesterday.

So, after reading about what an IP is, gotta ask, are there two IP initials, one for Internet Protocol and the other for Internet Provider? (I’m now thinking I’ve been translating those initials wrong for quite some time.)

Good reading - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subnetwork
simply put - The c class is 3rd set of numbers in the above example (209.8..........).

If I didn’t see so many English words in those sentences, I’d swear that article was written in ancient Greek. I had to click onto every link, and then click onto the links for those links. I got through the first paragraph with a large headache from thinking too much. (And I’m not kidding!) Then I got to the chart in the article about “Classful networks!” Oi Vey! My whole brain went, “Tilt. Tilt. Does not compute. Does not compute!” Felt like I was one of those robots catering to Mudd, in the original Star Trek episode, I, Mudd. (It was either that or comparing it to the robot in Lost in Space. LOL) I’ll take your “simply put” answer instead. LOL

If your local computer (the one you are using now) is running windows, go to
'Start > run...'
type in 'cmd'
click 'ok'
[you will get a dos promt (you can exit it by typing 'exit' and pressing return]
At the dos promt type 'ping site.com'
where site.com is your domain name, (eg I typed articledocs.com), and this is what I got

I typed in ‘spauldingtbear.tripod.com’
And was told ‘ ping.spauldingtbear.tripod.com’ is not recognized as an internal or external command. Thinking it might want the entire name of the web site, I also tried ‘spauldingtbear.tripod.com/spauldingandteddyswebden/index.html’ Got the same response.

I did manage to exit though. LOL

if they are the same, is there anyway I can just tell the search engines that they are all different?

I wish - that gets into the realm of black hatters

Ah, man, how did that happen?! I can bearly do hat, in general. Two different websites from one provider -- one about teddy bears -- their family and adventures; the other about gardening as explained by stuffed animals. They really aren't duplicate at all, just the same free hosting company. Now, I wish I could figure out what it's IP is. (Dave, will be responding to your answers after this, but tried your method too, with no luck. Was told it couldn't be determined.)

I know nothing about site builders or bravenet. I choose my domain name, buy it, then buy a hosting package. I have full control over everything, because I am paying for that service.

Wow! I feel like a kid, busy playing with my Tonka trucks, assuming everyone else that I was playing with were doing the same thing, only to look up and realizing, “Wow, all the other kids are riding around in real dump trucks and bulldozers!” Here I am thinking that the only “advantages” of buying your own domain is you get to type in all that code to get frustrated on your own, no advertising on your site, and you get to name your site whatever you want to name it. Code reminds me of English dubbed Kung Fu movies – a whole bunch of stuff surrounding the little of what you say, like lips moving for ten seconds to say, “Yes.”

Still feeling like that kid watching all the huge vehicles being driven around my little Tonka Bulldozer and me, I know there is stuff I want to ask about buying your own domain name and then selecting a hosting package from somewhere else. (Isn’t that what redirecting is, and isn’t redirecting bad for some reason?) Can you go back to the that time, when you first decided to do that, remember what you had to figure out before doing it, and, if you made any mistakes, what they were? This too comes under my very large heading of “Stuff I Want to Know, But Can’t Think of the Questions I Want to Ask.” No, not talking about writing an extended answer to clarify all that for me here. I’m just thinking that I doubt I’m the only one this naïve, so I bet it would make for a good article or more, too.

If you have free hosting then a lot of this access is revoked - customers may be malicious or ignorant - both can easily break things, but with very different intentions.

Yeah, still remembering the amount of times my husband had to give up trying to figure out what I did to the computer, before he fixed it, I come under the "dangerously ignorant" heading. LOL

To check the IP of a website use; http://www.selfseo.com/find_ip_address_of_a_website.php

As for the hosting, it is unlikely with BN or SiteBuilder will allow much in the way of server access and requirements for Redirects, you'd likely have to ask them

Since BN is probably a different server entirely then Tripod's Site Builder, I'm not worried about the search engines thinking that blog is a duplicate. I did get a redirect from them, but deleted it when I thought I learned that redirects were black hats/bad things that could destroy the site's credibility. Now I'm just totally lost again!

I did wish to change the urls to two of the sites, at one time, but was told that the only way I can do that is to start over with the new name, then import everything. I already have the new name taken for the web den (verses the Blog), just haven't felt like copy and pasting all the code, then figuring out how to delete all the ads stuck in it. Probably a chore once I've finished my list of stuff I want to do before then.

First question is.. DO I HAVE DUPLICATE CONTENT.... if you do then the SEs are likely to find it as they compare Class C IPs as well as Whois (G and YaH at least)

Nope, no dupicate content. Even the one page of the first site was completely changed around when I started expanding the second site. One of the advantage of having web sites for reasons other then money, is white hatting comes naturally. Of course, now I'm thinking that advantage might have disappeared because of my ignorance with IPing.

Well, my head is hurting from all the thinking...gonna get some work done, and mull what I've learned a bit. Will be back as soon as life lets me. I really appreciate all the help! Thanks!

DO I HAVE DUPLICATE CONTENT?

Only you can answer this - do you have pages that are identical?

eg
host1.com/atwhatcost/page1.htm
host2.com/awc/page2.html

is the code on each page identical or very similar?.

If you want visitors to one page to go to another then use a redirect. get your host to make it a 301 redirect, rather than 302

if it's a javascript redirect then that's treated in a similar way to 302s by SEs

Northie wrote:

I know there is stuff I want to ask about buying your own domain name and then selecting a hosting package from somewhere else. (Isn’t that what redirecting is, and isn’t redirecting bad for some reason?)

There are redirects, redirects and redirects - I' go through some of them for you

if you buy a domain name, you can tell the domain register where your site is hosted using name servers (your host will give you the heir name servers). Every single host / domain registrar in the world does this. the company that administers the name, has to tell a request where the site is.
(think of this like post or zip codes)

there are 301 redirects - this is where you want visitors to one page to be redirected to another page (maybe on a different). 301 says this is a permanent change. There si nothing wrong with this

(302 redirects are similar, but are on a temporary basis, not so good for SEs)

There are other types of redirects that involve cloaking IP addresses, tricking SEs and visitors. I don't know much about them. Black Hat is not my business (but I reckon I could be quite good at it if I tried)

Northie,
Sorry, but, again, you're assuming I know more then I do. I need to know some stuff before understanding what you wrote above. Best way for me to figure out what you're saying, is to use an example. Since I've been dreaming of owning my very own domains, I have the first name already picked out. Of course, it's been a few years since I checked it out, but, since this is just for educational purposes, let's just use it as an example, in hope of clarity, and pretend no one owns it now.

Let's talk about TeddyBearsWebDen.edu -- my dream domain name. OK, I purchase it...

1.) Who do I purchase it from?

2.) How did they come to own this thingy?

3.) What exactly am I purchasing? Is it virtual real estate? Is it sitting around, waiting to be purchased, in some tiny spot of a server somewhere? Or, is it more like I'm really picturing it -- like a business name, or a Screen Actor's Guild name -- and cannot be exactly the same as anyone else's name in that state? More of a concept, then an actual item?

4.) What do I actually get if I purchase it? If I'm not mistaken, it seemed more like it's a rented thing -- like a deposit box -- then like purchasing a car, which I get to keep and maintain until it no longer suits me, or it was driven into the ground, dead, never to rise again.

I have an equal, and practically identical list of questions about "hosting" too, but well, didn't want to write a novel here.

Do have one question, for now, that might clarify "redirect" specifically for me. My actual URL address for the Web Den has 68 characters in it, so quite a drag for anyone wanting to type in the address manually. The redirect that I used to have for it, through Bravenet, was only -- clik.to/teddybearsden. Was that a 301 or 302, a "name server" thingy, or "black hat?" I actually deleted it, thinking it was black hat.

Two nights ago, I asked my hubby (ex-Break/Fix guy and Novell -- he didn't know back then -- networking techie) a simple little question: "What are IPs?!" After two hours, the only things I got was there are 2 IPs -- networking ones and Internet ones...and they may, or may not be related....oh, and a splitting headache from trying to figure it all out. Two hours!!! My brain simply can't do that much heavy thinking anymore!!! So, I tell that to explain why it's taken me a day after seeing your post, before responding. LOL

Anyway, here's my extra questions after your response, drachnid.

drachnid wrote:

atwhatcost wrote:

1.) Who do I purchase it from?

Any domain name registrar - some of the more popular ones in North America include Tucows, Internic, Domain People, etc.

atwhatcost wrote:

2.) How did they come to own this thingy?

They don't own it per se - they have been granted the rights to manage domains - sort of like a property management company, if you will. They don't own the property, they manage it.

atwhatcost wrote:

3.) What exactly am I purchasing? Is it virtual real estate? Is it sitting around, waiting to be purchased, in some tiny spot of a server somewhere? Or, is it more like I'm really picturing it -- like a business name, or a Screen Actor's Guild name -- and cannot be exactly the same as anyone else's name in that state? More of a concept, then an actual item?

You are purchasing what in the industry is called a TLD (top level domain - ***.com, ***.net, ***.org, etc. etc.) - to a layman this is in essence a label or name used to redirect to the appropriate server hosting the related content. It's much easier for us humans to remember sequences of letters (ie: words) than sequences of numbers.

atwhatcost wrote:

4.) What do I actually get if I purchase it? If I'm not mistaken, it seemed more like it's a rented thing -- like a deposit box -- then like purchasing a car, which I get to keep and maintain until it no longer suits me, or it was driven into the ground, dead, never to rise again.

You are correct in your assumption - you don't actually buy the rights outright. You are renting the  domain name you've discovered is available for yearly periods - I believe at this stage you can 'buy' the rights to a domain name for up to ten years now.

Hope that helps clarify the matter.

On with your hosting questions...

I am getting some of this -- my hubby sorta helped me figure out how someone can own a domain name, but not host it. OK, I'll 'fess up, was reading another thread about IPs, Class C's not existing for over ten years, and "2 to the 8th^ - 2 = 254 possible IP addresses in one subnetwork", which started it all, and I understood about domains not being hosts for that short while. Might have to do for me.

(Eh, at this point, just so folks don't think I'm as stupid as I seem, I'm actually slightly above average intelligence, but permenently on pain meds, which I swear has killed my short-term memory and my thinking abilities. I guess that means, I used to be smart. LOL Oh, and no need to feel sorry for me. I might not be healthy anymore, but I got one huge advantage over most on this site -- TIME! Lots and lots of time to try and learn or do anything I can afford to do. Thus...here I am, with my own websites, trying to learn this stuff, so nanny nanny noo noo! LOL:angel:)

OK, so Tucows, Internic, Domain People, etc. got management rights for domain names. I used to work in the maintenance department of a Property Management place, and knew who owned all 900+ apartments, and there were quite a few owners. So, to go on with this metaphor, who granted these folks right to maintain domains, and how did they get these rights? I'm picturing Tucows owning the rights to aaardvar.com-byyesterdaysstandard.com, on down to the maintance folks who "own" TV.com-Zylophone.com. I'm also picturing all those domain names on keys to doors, but the maintaners don't even have to maintian the domain behind the door, since that's where the host start their bit. Is that what you mean by simply a redirect -- the door goes to another place entirely outside the domain name maintainers?!

I think that's so cool that someone rents these domains, but now I'm wondering what does it take to become one of those companies. Do they get free domains and get to rent the rest out? Since it all seems literally virtual, it sure seems like a good gig if you can get it!