First of all, why is it that Mozilla (and Netscape to a lesser degree) don't show 'some' table and cell borders in a HTML site?

Secondly, is there anything that can be done to make the borders visible??

Thanks
Wiz

Please show us an example of a table border that Mozilla doesn't show

I haven't found the reason why or fixed the problem, but I've managed to 'get around it very nicely'.

What I just did was gave the table the background colour of the border I want, used 1 pixel cell spacing (or whatever thickness you want) and gave the cell the desired background colour. This leaves a 1 pixel 'spacing' around the edge which acts as a border and NOzilla shows it...

Of course, in some arrangements (like where you have multiple cells per table and already have a spacing or padding value existing etc), this may not always be possible to effect, but it works in simple applications

Just in case anyone wnats to know how to get around the problem.

I am still curious as to why this problem exists with the different browsers. I mean, HTML is HTML - I can't see that there's any special coding etc that could be applied to fix it. I thought it may have been a 'FrontPage' abberation, but I built a table with cells and borders freehand without using FrontPage and the borders still didn't show in NOzilla...

Thanks,
Wiz

Travel and Mute,

Thanks for the replies. As I've just posted now, I did a free-hand version and it still didn't show.

Here's an example - It's a site I've just begun - The CENTRE table is done the way I explain above. The left and right tables are done with simple borders coded. Look at in IE then in NOzilla.

Wiz

(Unrelated to this issue - how much is Dreamweaver or a similar WYSIWYG html editor??)

Here's the code for the long table on the left (rather than put the code for the whole page here, you can see it the 'source' option).

Thanks
Steve

<div align="center">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="163" height="20">
<tr>
<td width="10" height="1"><img border="0" src="images/smallcnr_l.jpg" width="10" height="20"></td>
<td width="143" height="1" bgcolor="#800000"></td>
<td width="10" height="1" valign="top"><img border="0" src="images/smallcnr_r.jpg" width="10" height="20"></td>
</tr>
</table>
<div align="center">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="163" height="600" style="border: 1 solid #800000">
<tr>
<td height="121" valign="top">
<td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>

I would imagine the reason Mozilla isn't displaying your border has something to do with the

border="0"

that you put in the table tag

Hi Wiz,
I copied your code into one of my FP test sites and I think the problem has a lot to do with the cell and table properties you are using. Do this in a test page and not the live site. Set all of the Alignment to Default and set the float to default, then set the width for the Tables and Cells to Percent @ 100%

FP is not going to let you add much hand code unless you mess with the formatting rules. The problem you are having with rendering is something I dealt with in the past.

I would stick the FP doc type back in the head and … thinking how to explain… hit Enter (with the cursor at the top) and start adding fresh tables, one at a time. I use FP tables, so you may get some ideas from my, it does render fairly well. It is FP so you could put a table in a table, just don’t let it get too nested.

By the way, delete all of the Span tags, which will help it render.

Your problem, I assume, is related to the fact that you have empty table cells.  Place a &nbsp; (whitespace) inside of any table cells that are otherwise empty.

Het there Wiz.

<td height="121" valign="top">

<td>

This is your second table. The second <td> should be </td>

Now, if you'd validated your code in FF Tidy, it would have told you that. You just ask TA about valid code.

Regards,
Laurie.

travelagent wrote:

waveshoppe wrote:

I would stick the FP...

Leaving yourself wide open, aren't you?

Lets not start with that FP bashing again.

People are free to use Tidy and all the other apps to clean up the FP HTML, but you will be very sorry you did. FP will develop an almost incurable code disease, and jumping into a pit of flesh eating zombies will look inviting (mutilated will give you a picture LOL)

Well, I really didn't like that picture at all. Not my style, you know. Didn't look for more than a second or so.

I'm sure you're right, Waveshop, about the incurable code disease.

But when things don't work out the way they should, especially in a test page, FF Tidy would be a very handy tool, even if just for a look, and then manually fix the limited piece of code.

Hope you're enjoying the beach over there. Us Ozies are nearly to the shortest day, which generally marks the beginning of the real winter.

Regards,
Laurie.

As usual I am burning the midnight oil; I think I am on hour 14 with 2 more to go. San Diego is mostly sunny and in the mid 70s – low 80s, year round. There are drawbacks when you live next to a beach, its hard to find somewhere to vacation, you surly don’t go to another beach.

Tidy is a great app, just not for FP Webs, I let it fix some code once and it was soooo messed up. Good thing it was in the early days when the Wave Shoppe site absolutely sucked.

I am sure your good at doing a lot of things by hand, go away, far away if possible.

Mutilated1 wrote:

I would imagine the reason Mozilla isn't displaying your border has something to do with the

border="0"

that you put in the table tag

Sorry people, had to go to work for a bit. I'll look thru all this and reply where needed. But I had to reply to this one immediately.....!!!

That's the table border - The cell has a border value of 1.....

(Besides - if there WAS no border value, why is there a border in IE???)

Wiz

SiteReference wrote:

Your problem, I assume, is related to the fact that you have empty table cells.  Place a &nbsp; (whitespace) inside of any table cells that are otherwise empty.

Tried that - no go. (This ha been a long term problem that I've never been concerned with, too much - But now that Mozilla is getting popular and has bought out an update, more people may start to use it. I see Google are advertising it in their Sitemap page, so it will get tried  by many, I would say).

Thanks,
Wiz

travelagent wrote:

Okay -- I need a vacation where I can take a laptop; check websites while sipping on my favorite beverage and agitating people ... oh yeah;

your beach isn't that far from me

-- what a great idea you have!

Neither is your front lawn, good place to leave my McDonalds wrappers.

Thanks for the help people. As is the general opinion, it is probably a Frontpage thing.

As for the HTML Tidy program, I've got it, but I only use it to check for 'obvious' errors. If I use it to repair FP, it totally stuffs the site sideways.

BTW, what 'Doc Type' would you call this - a straight unadulterated FP html coded site like this one? I''ve read some conflicting info??

Anyway, I use FP because I like it, and I probably like it because I'm used to it after over 4 years. I would give DW or another 'so called' better editor, if I came across one for little or no bucks because I have no real reason to spend the dollars.

Anyway, after wrestling with this border problem for sometime, I came up with the fix straight after I posted this thread. The table spacing and background trick I mentioned earlier works well, provided, as I said, you don't already have spacing and backgrounds etc for other purposes.

Anyway, thanks all, again.
Wiz

Wizard of Oz wrote:

Thanks for the help people. As is the general opinion, it is probably a Frontpage thing.

As for the HTML Tidy program, I've got it, but I only use it to check for 'obvious' errors. If I use it to repair FP, it totally stuffs the site sideways.

BTW, what 'Doc Type' would you call this - a straight unadulterated FP html coded site like this one? I''ve read some conflicting info??

Anyway, I use FP because I like it, and I probably like it because I'm used to it after over 4 years. I would give DW or another 'so called' better editor, if I came across one for little or no bucks because I have no real reason to spend the dollars.

Anyway, after wrestling with this border problem for sometime,

I came up with the fix

straight after I posted this thread. The table spacing and background trick I mentioned earlier works well, provided, as I said, you don't already have spacing and backgrounds etc for other purposes.

Anyway, thanks all, again.
Wiz

Hey good buddy, you fixed it? It’s still all over the place in FF. Compare the home page code against the articles page, which does render correctly.

Wizard of Oz wrote:

Anyway, I use FP because I like it, and I probably like it because I'm used to it after over 4 years. I would give DW or another 'so called' better editor, if I came across one for little or no bucks because I have no real reason to spend the dollars.

Whatever gets the job done - if it works for you, then that's fantastic.  I'm sure you've heard enough about why FP is not the choice of many people.

(Unrelated to this issue - how much is Dreamweaver or a similar WYSIWYG html editor??)

google: torrent box

when you find the site, search: dreamweaver

Youll find its free!!!!